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Shanahan: 'I have certainly learned several important lessons'
Published on -8/12/2008, 4:00 PM
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By GAYLE WEBER
A YouTube video posted Aug. 2 was the first time Fort Hays State University had seen or heard anything about an incident at a national debate meet in March involving debate coach Bill Shanahan.
Since then, more than 10,000 people have viewed the eight-minute tirade in which Shanahan curses, moons the audience and carries on an argument with University of Pittsburgh debate coach Shanara Reid-Brinkley.
"Certainly, Fort Hays does not condone what Bill did," Provost Larry Gould said. "We're very serious about who is representing Fort Hays State. We have a brand that has to be protected."
Gould said the dean of the College of Arts and Sciences and the communication studies department chair are looking into the incident, but they have not been able to reach Shanahan to determine what happened. They also are looking into why it took nearly six months for the video to appear on the Internet.
Gould said his understanding of the incident was that FHSU debaters struck the score of a judge, Reid-Brinkley, during one of its rounds at the Cross Examination Debate Association event.
"That's something very acceptable if someone hasn't been scoring very well for you in the past," Gould said. The argument between Shanahan and Reid-Brinkley began shortly thereafter.
"I have certainly learned several important lessons. I only hope the costs are not too high," Shanahan said in an e-mail. "My greatest concern, however, is that the university, our students or anybody else does not suffer too greatly for my mistakes."
Gould said he and Paul Faber, the past and current deans of the College of Arts and Sciences, had each only received one complaint about Shanahan during his 10 years at FHSU.
"In the classroom and on campus, Bill has been an excellent teacher, very provocative, non-conformist," Gould said. "Students have not complained in any great numbers."
Students who were at the debate tournament also have not given much feedback about the situation. Gould said they did not seem upset about the situation.
"My concern was for the students, though I obviously represented them poorly in this situation," said Shanahan, who also hosts "Democracy Matters" on FHSU's Channel 67. "I am a passionate person and sometimes my devotion to debate and intellectual engagement gets the better of me."
Gould said he could not recall any other incidents like this with any other faculty on campus.
"We would not have seen this if it weren't for the interactive technology, the new media today," Gould said. "If there have been incidents in the past, the media have not brought it to us."
Shanahan has had his share of off-campus incidents. He was arrested in June 2007 for disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, criminal trespass and battery for an altercation at a T-ball game in Hays. He also was arrested in May 2006 for battery after an argument with his eye doctor.
42 comment(s) found
Why is this Gould's fault?:
9/5/2008Someone in the comments said Gould's comments were spineless. And your comment's insane. This wasn't Gould's fight - it was Hammond's. The ignorance on some of these posts is a problem, but the ones taking shots at Gould when he doesn't have the authority to hire and fire is just stupid. Whoever posted that ought to edit their comment. You're an idiot
(Posted by: Someone Who Can Read an Organizational Chart)
Wild Bill Shanahan: 8/20/2008
What exactly do you have to do to get fired from FHSU? Apparently anything goes.
(Posted by: Bernie)
Excellent!: 8/20/2008
As a FHSU alum, let me say I've never been prouder. This is the funniest stuff I've seen in years!
(Posted by: Pat)
Free-for-all: 8/17/2008
This is in response to the comment by "FHSU Alumni '72": "Things have really deteriorated when you can show up at a national meet with shorts, no shoes, and a vocabulary that would embarrass a sailor." I agree. Back in the early 80s when I was on the debate team we were expected to wear professional attire (suits) to all debates. We were also taught to remain calm end even toned when our opponent flew off the handle, because it kept us in control of the argument. What has happened to debating in the last 25 years? I know one video does not represent all of debating, but it seems like free-for-all nowadays.
(Posted by: Old-time Debater)
Intelligent Debate: 8/16/2008
As a graduate of FHSU I am embarrased by what Professor Bill's ---- Wild Bill act. In debate I was always told the one who looses their cool, looses the debate. This was not an "intelligent" debate at all. He certainly isn't a Dr. Costigan. I remember Jack Heather and the "cuss can". Maybe Professor Bill should be introduced to the "cuss can" and contribute some money to the can and learn to choose his words better. Now, with that said. I was even more shocked today to learn about Professor Bill's behavior in the community at a t-ball game and with his eye doctor. Has the University put him on notice after these incidents? Certainly they have grounds to take action against him. He has demonstrated a clear path that he intends to follow. As for those who say they will not support the University financially.....I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't want the students, staff and the entire University to suffer because of one man's lack of maturity. Heads up fellow FHSU alumni. It's time to rise above this, support our University and let the leaders of our University know how we feel in an intelligent and adult manner.
(Posted by: Communications '86)
: 8/16/2008
I am a former collegiate and HS debater. Shanahan is just the latest of a long line of eccentric non-conformist geniuses in the debate world. In the late 1970s, Dallas Perkins, the coach of Boston U, long haired and crazed but also a genius, was arrested for assaulting a campus security officer. From the bizare James Unger at Georgetown to Shannahan, the debate world has always been the bastion of the brilliant deranged genius. Unlike your typical 60s eccentric however, the debate world is driven first by intense competition to win. Which unfortunately manifests itself with an incident like this. Fort Hays has a difficult choice. Should it retain a flawed yet brilliant professor? I vote yes.
(Posted by: Dan B)
Professor Bill: 8/15/2008
You people who fly the symbolic flag of my Constitution, and pledge allegiances to it, need to stop with the lip service and the motions of raising that flag if for once you think Bill Shanahan is "too unconventional". Don't you be claiming to be an American, decent, and right...while at the same time criticizing another American with his own equally considered/protected ideas of what is good and right. This is a fallacy of partisan politics. And obviously a matter of unballanced compassions. Only, in partisan controlled territory, the most people (with the same unballanced compassion for something) automatically assume their right, and do so blindly. But as long as the majority is doing it for agreeable reasons, then wtf...forget about the ideological minorities' rights and trample all over them. Cant do it to the physical minorities anymore, must do it to the ideological minorities now. Criminalize them, and label them...and take away their equally protected opportunities and rights. If you're like this, then shame on every last one of you. Period.
(Posted by: Frank Wolfgang Post)
Professor Bill: 8/15/2008
Listen: I am flattered about everybody else's concerns for what damages Professor Bill's unique, and equally constitutionally protected, teaching style has on me. As one of Professor Bills' students, I am overwhelmed by your care for my conventional brain. However. It's none of your business what goes on in "my" class that I pay for with "my" tuition. In "our" tax paid and government censored institutions of higher learning. Or can I say institutions of higher brainwashing? : ) This is an "Arguement and Debate" instructor. Doh! And a top rate one at that. Fort Hays State University must back Professor Shanahan up until its ribs cave in. Not forsaken him because of some limited ideological convention of what is acceptable and what is not. You do that in Chinese Universities, not in American ones. I dont pay taxes to keep the doors open on a University that abandons "guts, fortitude,and the comfort in knowing we can be the most of who we are", regardless of who we are. Bottom line is: Leave Bill Alone...I am greatful for the education this man has afforded me in his area of expertise. And if he would have offended me in any manner ( or any of my classmates)...we got over it, and learned something in the process. Professor Gould should be Philosophied enough to know what happened to Socrates when he went against the grain. Give Bill the Hemlock eh, and then forget.... People that conform to convention really suck. And people who define convention really really suck. : )) And I knew all of this before I attended Professor Bills class, so don't go blaming my individualism on this witch that must be burned at the steak for offending someone with the butt the good lord gave him. : ) Now, nobody has ever seen a hippies butt before??? I don't like brittney spears butt shaking provocatively on stage either, so I don't watch it. But people's daughters can absorb that just fine....because convention says they can. Sheep being led to the slaughter, and its sickening. : ) I will have a pleasant day.
(Posted by: Frank Wolfgang Post)
Alums "Defeaming" FHSU: 8/15/2008
Frankly, the spelling and grammar of the comments are more damaging to the school's reputation than the tirade.
(Posted by: Outsider looking in)
What is acceptable behavior?: 8/15/2008
What is acceptable behavior in society especially from a college professor teaching your children? If Shanahan got into a heated debate in a classroom and dropped his pants in front of your daughter who is a student in his class, would that be acceptable free speech first amendment rights? Or would it be considered indecent exposure? In a free society there still needs to be boundaries. This guy stepped over the boundry. He needs to go.
(Posted by: jackson)
Shanahan: 8/15/2008
How can onyone stand by and accept this behavior whether is it was posted on the internet or not? Two arrests and this very unprofessional, profanity laced tirade doesn't show he has learned ANY lessons despite what he says in the article. I understand the administration must act cautiously, but this person needs to be somewhere else. We deserve better.
(Posted by: Fort Hays Grad)
Shanahan: 8/15/2008
Get over yourselves - this doesn't look to be such a big deal - it was just stuck on the internet. Bill Shanahan is a colorful character, but he means well. It would be a huge loss for a mediocre school to lose him.
(Posted by: LRS)
He has to go: 8/14/2008
I live far away from Hays and anyone that knows that I am from Hays has sent me a link from CNN, FoxNews, USA Today, etc. about Dr. Shanahan. His behavior is un-execusable and based on his previous conduct in the town, there is no excuse for him to be on campus the first day of class. I don't care how successful his debates teams have been. It does not give him a license to disgrace a place that so many are fond of. Dr. Gould should be ashamed of his comments too. You can't dispute the evidence of the video and side-stepping the issue with his comments makes him and FHSU look even sillier the longer this drags out.
(Posted by: Proud Alum)
Donations: 8/14/2008
There is one way to get the attention of the University when it comes to someone who acts like this in the community and while on official school business; Stop you contributions to the University until he is dismissed. I know I'm going to and if enough "big" donors withhold money the fine people who graduated from Fort Hays won't have to ever face this professor again. Enough is enough already.
(Posted by: Black and Gold Pride)
Shame: 8/14/2008
I understand that the other party involved may have begun the argument and certainly should be severly punished by her University, but Shanahan should not be teaching or associated with Fort Hays State. Had he been a public school teacher, he would be out the door this very instance as well should be. Shanahan's most important lesson should be that this behavior won't be tolerated at this great University.
(Posted by: FHSU Grad)
Shanahan: 8/14/2008
He went to far. There is an adult way of arguing and then what he did. If you watch the viedo both went to far. Both should have to pay for the embarsement that they have caused. This made it to KC news, I do not want to wear my school shirt until this passes. I do not want to be associated with him and what he did.
(Posted by: FHSU alum '07)
Goodness: 8/14/2008
I am an alumni of FHSU as well. I wasn't thrilled to see a faculty member on you tube but I have to agree with the student. FHSU is so much more than that and to get bent out of shape over this is silly. No one reading this blog has ever made a fool of themselves at one point in their lives? Get over youself!
(Posted by: ironwomanks)
Shanahan: 8/14/2008
Anyone that is a college teacher and acts like this idiot did should be shown the door. He shouldn't represent a college like Hays.
(Posted by: Herman T)
: 8/14/2008
I guess I must be showing my age, but in my day, we were expected to represent the university in a way that would portray the university in a positive way. Things have really deteriorated when you can show up at a national meet with shorts, no shoes, and a vocabulary that would embarrass a sailor. Students wouldn't have been allowed to behave like this, never mind the professor. I have very fond memories of Fort Hays State and didn't realize it had become a mini-clone of the University of Colorado with its Ward Churchill controversity. Maybe it's time for new leadership at Fort Hays if things like this are evidently encouraged (Provost Gould's comments seemed to be relatively spineless).
(Posted by: FHSU Alumni '72)
Still going.....: 8/14/2008
Shanahan's behavior has just been published in the new issue of the Salina Journal along with a link to his YouTube fiasco! Seems like anger management classes are in order for this oaf!
(Posted by: embarrased FHSU alumni)
Shanahan should be let go: 8/14/2008
Shanahan disgraced our University. If a student were to act like this they would be severely disciplined. Shanahan is not a good role model for our campus. This incident has disgraced FHSU worldwide and Shanahan should be held responsible. There is no excuse he is suppose to act professional and show respect for others.
(Posted by: Current FHSU Student)
8 minute Tirade: 8/14/2008
Debate is not a rant by people acting like 2 year olds. I now cannot in good conscience wear my FHSU Alumni shirt anymore. He is anything but professorlike.
(Posted by: Gordon Philip)
Don't Jump to Conclusions: 8/14/2008
Unfortunately, as in many videos, we don't see the whole session. We only see the over-reaction of the long-haired professor and not what led up to this. We hear nothing about the other professor or her background. Except I hear her cursing before the man gets very upset. What are the rules of the debate? Can someone shake their head while the debate is on. In my opinion if someone starts using foul language or interrupts the debate their team should immediately be disqualified and this ends the debate and thus maintain order and proper behavior.
(Posted by: Former Student)
Professor Shanahan: 8/14/2008
I guess that "Interfaculty colloquiums" thing he talks about on his faculty profile page still needs some work.
(Posted by: Rob)
What an embarassment!: 8/14/2008
As a FHSU Alum (1997), this is revolting! This man obivously has no class. Because of this and the China connection that this school has, I will not send any more money.
(Posted by: Matt Dierking)
Shanahan: 8/14/2008
As an FHSU alumni I was very disappointed in this story. You would think that being a debate coach he would know how to argue in a professional mannor. What I do not understand is why all of the articles are just pointing him out as the bad guy. I think Shanara Reid-Brinkley was acting just a immature. However, for all of you that are withholding money or support for FHSU you are only hurting everyone else that is a part FHSU. There are many things to be proud of at FHSU. Unfortunately, you people always look for the bad and don't appreciate the positive aspects.
(Posted by: FHSU Alumni '08)
Power to the People!: 8/14/2008
To those who accuse FHSU alums of "holding the school hostage...." Money is the only thing the administration will understand. FHSU certainly was not at the top of my personal philanthropy list, but ever since the infamous Bill Shanahan t-ball incident, they have not made the list at all. I've been on the receiving end of a Bill Shanahan tirade. The man has some serious issues. His behavior, first in public and now while representing FHSU in an official capacity, has cast FHSU in a negative light. That negative light is not because of his "provacative" or "non-conformist" academic thought. It is because of his disrespectful, and literally, his criminal behavior. And the only way I can make Dr. Ed Hammond understand my displeasure with this type of behavior (which has not been adequately addressed in the past), is to vote with my pocketbook. True, Picken Hall won't bear a plaque with my name on it. I'm lucky if a two sentence article shows up in the Alumni News telling past friends of some small achievment. But, FHSU still calls my wife and I and asks us to donate to an institution that refuses to address a faculty member that has repeatedly violated their own code of ethics. Not until the issue is truly addressed.
(Posted by: DTP FHSU Alumni '92)
Meaningful debate?: 8/14/2008
What does the good professor mean by certainly having learned a few lessons? He is presumably an adult. Civility is a lesson that he should have learned as a mere child. We do not have time for him to grow up on our dime. He should be removed from the public pay role as soon as is humanly possible and be rid of him. Let him go somewhere else to be a public fool. His actions had little if anything to do with defending a team. All he apparently has taught some who have posted responses is that if you jump up and down, scream obscenities, act the part of a public fool you are somehow doing something laudable. That assessment of his activities is immature at best and is not what a civil society ought to be doing. It contributes absolutely nothing to meaningful debate of issues.
(Posted by: Jackson)
Shanahan & u-tube: 8/14/2008
Dr. Hammond, please take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPt8UVU7bXs and then "go do the right thing".... show Mr. Shanahan the door!
(Posted by: Harold H.)
low road for sure: 8/14/2008
He's no Jim Costigan!
(Posted by: tiger alum)
One more black eye courtesy of Bill: 8/13/2008
FHSU should be appalled at the behavior of this "teacher". His immaturity is equivalent to that of a three year old. That he writes for the HDN and instructs our youth is inconceivable. He should be given his walking papers ASAP so that he can apply his "passion" elsewhere... perhaps in the Bay Area with the rest of the 60's holdovers...
(Posted by: raynjuls)
Supporter On Hold: 8/13/2008
I love how every time anything happens some "supporter" of FHSU decides to withhold their money until something is done. They held the name change hostage, and now they're demanding Bill Shanahan's head. I'll bet the only time this 'supporter' contributes is when hell freezes over.
(Posted by: John Q. Public)
WHAT!: 8/13/2008
Look... your degrees mean something because you make them mean something... that's your responsibility... Coach S... is a lil off at times... but this is NOT BAD! He defended his teams position and supports academia more than any other coach I've met, he's passionate and produces more for the debate community than anyone else I've known. You all... yes you ALL, FHSU alum, should kiss his feet for the promo he's brought your horrible school.
(Posted by: JD Smith)
fire him ? ha.: 8/13/2008
He will not be fired. You can fire the average FHSU employee, but not a professor ! They have a Union! And some have tenure. You think Shanahan will go quietly !?!? Better lawyer-up. FHSU will pay him a year's salary or more to have him go away. Sweet deal for sure.
(Posted by: steve-o)
WHAT?!: 8/13/2008
How can you go and say you are not going to support FHSU in any fashion because of this?!?! Bill Shanahan does not represent the Encore Series or the Athletic Department in any way; and to completely cut ties from the university is immature and irrational! Please do not jump overboard and draw ridiculous conclusions because of this one incident. Open your eyes and realize how much more there is to Fort Hays State University than this silly Youtube video that will be forgotten very quickly...
(Posted by: FHSU Student)
wow: 8/13/2008
how embarrassing. The part that is most disturbing is how many of the comments on YouTube see this as a reflection of the current public education system.
(Posted by: Aaron)
FHSU Defeamed! : 8/13/2008
I am embarrased to be an almumni of a school branded with that type of behavior from a faculty. It makes our degrees not worth the paper they are printed on.
(Posted by: John Stevenson)
: 8/13/2008
This has been seen by many people. What Shanahan did makes the University look unprofessional. It is sad he hda to do this. This will stick with FHSU.
(Posted by: FHSU alum)
: 8/13/2008
After the university's non-action last year after his T-Ball game incident, I've decided to not support any university-affiliated events (Encore series, athletics), and I've chosen not to renew memberships/season tickets/etc. I'm not alone in this; it's time for the University leadership to be held accountable for condoning his continued unprofessional conduct at our (taxpayer) expense. I'm all for the University being a hotbed of free speech and open thinking, but the crossing of the line at his extreme levels needs to be shown the door.
(Posted by: FHSU Supporter On Hold)
Shanahan: 8/13/2008
This doesn't look good for FHSU. Time to look for some other county to live in Bill.
(Posted by: FHSU Alumni 1995)
They took the low road: 8/13/2008
Passion is great, but both coaches set a poor example that day and chose to take the low road. It was shocking to see 2 people with PhDs behaving like they were on the Jerry Springer show. Bill appeared to be highly antagonistic and childish in his rantings. My vote would be for both of them to issue a public apology, take anger management classes, and be put on scholastic probation.
(Posted by: JuryMember1)
Intellectual: 8/13/2008
How can Shanahan claim to be passionate about intellectual engagement. There was nothing in that tirade that was intellectual. Time to move on Bill and let the university hire an intelligent debate coach.
(Posted by: FHSU alumni '08)
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